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Post by fullermj on Jul 24, 2007 10:33:23 GMT -4
I also liked how HP was able to kill Voldemizzle without using the Avada Kedavra. In fact, I don't think he ever used it, did he? I've only read the books once, so I'm not 100% sure.
there were definitely times I thought he was gonna, and I wanted him to, but by the end, I was psyched he didn't.
I also thought it was cool when Dumbledore tossed Voldemort into the exhaust pit of the second death star, along with the one ring.
wait...;-)
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Post by Paco_Guerrera on Jul 24, 2007 12:58:43 GMT -4
Kate, Im glad you brought up the last line from Snape. Its significance actually didnt hit me the first time I read it. Im sure I missed alot during that first read through since I was really trying to power through it and find out what happened. Since then though I've gone back and actually reread the last few chapters to catch any small details I may have missed, and it hit me what exactly he was doing when he asked Harry to look at him. I absolutely love that JKR was true to the character of Snape right to the bitter end. Everything Snape did, he did out of his love for Lily Potter and his regret for failing her. All other things were totally secondary. Her memory was the driving force in his life and that never wavered. Even after being viciously attacked and with only a few moments before death, the only thing he wanted was still to serve her and look into her eyes as he died. No second thoughts or doubts at all.
I never really liked his character in any of the other books, but this book just made him totally awesome in my mind.
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Poobar
Attention Whore
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Post by Poobar on Jul 24, 2007 13:34:46 GMT -4
As for fullers question... Harry's Short unforgivable curse list: Book 5: Crucio... (harry learns from bellatrix that you have to mean it) Book 7: Imperio... (Harry takes control of some goblins) Book 7: CRUCIO... (Harry blasts one of the Carrows for spitting in McGonagall's face) [ "You shouldn't have done that"..."CRUCIO"... "I see what Bellatrix meant, You really need to men it"] and that was it... no Avada...
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Post by Paco_Guerrera on Jul 24, 2007 20:01:28 GMT -4
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osoblanco
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Post by osoblanco on Jul 24, 2007 20:03:21 GMT -4
The book was fucking awesome!!!!!!! Everyones points and views are great as well, however Some of my favorite parts have not been mentioned. The discussion that harry has with lupin basiccaly telling him he would be a piece of deadbeat dad if he came with them was an intense read. Harry saying he will be a reakless godfather as sirious was brought a smile and chuckle in an otherwise intense fast paced thrill ride off a story!!! And I defy anyone on this site who has read this book to tell me when harry conjures his parents, siriuos and lupin with the hallow stone and asks if it will hurt to die, and then asks his mom to stay close when it happens, to tell me they weren't choking back or shedding some tears!!!! Aside from frodo and gandalf saying goodbye at the grey havens this part of hp7 was the most touching and emotional thing I have ever read. Oh and I almost forgot, how fucking depressing was it when Bellatrix lecunt kills dobby??? This book was great from start to finish. Oh yeah fuckyou pete for coming up with that harry horcrux theory, when I was reading, off in this universe in my head pete all of a sudden came into the frame!!!(can't say it wasn't funny though Pete!!!!)
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Post by Paco_Guerrera on Jul 25, 2007 12:19:17 GMT -4
So I dont understand something. Its possible that this was covered in one of the previous books and I'm just forgetting since I havent read the others in a long time. Basically, I'm not totally clear regarding Harry not dying again when Voldemort AKs him.
We are told that Voldemort took Harrys blood to rebuild his physical body and in doing so took a small portion of the protective enchantment harrys mother created into himself and formed a sort of anchor to life for harry. As long as Voldemort lived, harrys protection still existed. I suppose my question is, why is this even necessary? If the enchantment still exists in Harrys blood, why the hell does it matter if Voldemort has it as well? Wouldnt Harry be protected from Voldemort regardless of them sharing the enchantment? I guess im not so much wondering how he survived a second time as much as Im wondering why his protection wouldnt work without being shared with Voldemort. I think I missed something and its bothering me.
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Post by Nethyr on Jul 25, 2007 15:32:05 GMT -4
The way I saw it is kind of wacky, and again almost like an inverse happy-crux of goodness. Harry couldn't be fully killed while his (protected) blood still flowed in a living being. Therefore H can't die while V lives (see prophecy). Harry on the other hand was V's link to this mortal world via the horcrux within him, but when he "died", the horcrux (flayed baby) was extracted and he came back whole. The trick is that by V keeping H's blood alive, he's keeping H from dying. If he hadn't taken his blood, Harry's protection would have died with him. At least that's how I saw it. Oh and Sam, glad to help.
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osoblanco
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Post by osoblanco on Jul 25, 2007 15:33:10 GMT -4
I belive it was the hallows wand Jim. All the wand makers were agreed that you have to take the wand by force so it works for you. That is why the first wand hermine gave harry in the woods didn't work but malfoys did. The deathstick was supposed to go to Draco cause he killed dumbledore.(I know Snape really killed him, but the unbreakable vow) That is also why Voldemorts curse on neville didn;t have that much effect and why he couldn't finish the teachers right before the final duel with Harry. Also Harry put up no resistance when Voldemort cursed him, so I belive the curse only killed the horcrux and Dumbledore said in the kings cross place if he would have fought back he would have been fully dead. Frank, Kate and myself discussed that very thing the other night, so they should post there opinions too, cause the seemed to have known the exact reason. Oh yeah Jim I don't thick owls are that bad . Its not like a hawk or falcon dude!!!!
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Post by fullermj on Jul 25, 2007 15:48:18 GMT -4
Pete, question:
so, when voldemort had Wormtail bring him back to life at the end of HP4 he needed:
-bone of the father, forcibly taken -flesh of the servant, willingly given -blood of the enemy, forcibly taken
so, by your rationale, VM was pretty much porked, because there is no way that he (0r anyone else, really) can kill Harry, while he lives? he couldn't have even come back to life without HP's blood.
I dig this, because it pretty much is a huge flaw in a very EVIL plan of V-Mizzle, because there was no god damn way that he could fulfill his goal of killing HP.
right?
as a side, I was hoping that HP, at some point, didn't even need the wand, and could bust out spells, Force-style. But, the wands became a big part of the story.
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Post by fullermj on Jul 25, 2007 15:49:05 GMT -4
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Post by Trixie on Jul 25, 2007 15:54:07 GMT -4
Wait, was the question why did he even need the shared blood if Lily's protection was still active?? I'm pretty sure that's why they had to be all covert in getting Harry out of the Privet Drive house; because living in the house of the family (Lily's sister) is what kept the protection active, and once he no longer called that house "home" the protection was lifted. That's why he had to keep going back there during the summers. So, as soon as Harry left Privet drive with the intention of no longer living there, he was open to whatever Voldemort threw at him. The shared blood saved his after that.
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Post by Paco_Guerrera on Jul 25, 2007 15:56:19 GMT -4
The way I saw it is kind of wacky, and again almost like an inverse happy-crux of goodness. Harry couldn't be fully killed while his (protected) blood still flowed in a living being. Therefore H can't die while V lives (see prophecy). Harry on the other hand was V's link to this mortal world via the horcrux within him, but when he "died", the horcrux (flayed baby) was extracted and he came back whole. The trick is that by V keeping H's blood alive, he's keeping H from dying. If he hadn't taken his blood, Harry's protection would have died with him. At least that's how I saw it. Oh and Sam, glad to help. Not the house protection. That was seperate from his mothers blood protection I believe. The question was if the protection is in Harrys blood, then why wouldnt it prevent him from dying regardless of it being in Voldemort as well? Unless Im mistaken, the protection only exists for Harry against Voldemort specifically. So if Harry has this protection, and Voldemort hits him with an AK, why would he die? the enchantment being part of Voldemort seems redundant. Also you mention the prophecy, but that too is utterly confusing. "either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives... "How does this explain things? I just see it as meaning that in the end one needs to kill the other. Also Fuller, blood of the enemy doesnt necessary need to mean Harry Potter I would think. Voldemort had many enemies and Im sure any of them would have sufficed, but he chose to use Harrys blood since he thought it would empower him in some way.
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osoblanco
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Post by osoblanco on Jul 25, 2007 16:23:24 GMT -4
what am I fucking wood? ?? I gave you people the fucking answer!!!!!!! The wand motherfuckers!!! and I agree fuller not using the wand would have been the !! The book was called the DEATHLY HALLOWS.....SO...... THe hallow wand or deathstick. was there really a need to go into all that about the magic of wands if that wasn't a big part of V DIZZles(awesome again fuller!!) dimise?
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Post by Paco_Guerrera on Jul 25, 2007 16:30:45 GMT -4
Its explained in kings cross that the reason he didnt die was because of the blood sam. The elder wand enabled Harry to defeat Voldemort at the end, but I dont think it had anything to do with harry surviving the avada kadavra.
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Post by Paco_Guerrera on Jul 26, 2007 15:47:02 GMT -4
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