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Post by Nethyr on Jul 30, 2007 14:31:09 GMT -4
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Post by Paco_Guerrera on Jul 30, 2007 16:36:31 GMT -4
Oh man, that was good stuff.
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Post by Nethyr on Jul 30, 2007 17:13:10 GMT -4
So here's a topic which someone was going to post (looking at you Bek) ... What exactly was that on the floor with Harry in the ethereal King's Cross? I had no doubts of my initial thought, but someone proposed another idea to me, and JKR throws another wrench in that article which still doesn't make sense.
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Post by Paco_Guerrera on Jul 30, 2007 18:16:01 GMT -4
I replied to this in the IM, but for everyone else Ill reply as well. I believe it was Voldemorts soul, his actual soul.
We see that when Harry is recovering after Kings Cross that Voldemort had also been knocked out. I believe the connection that Harry and Voldemort share thanks to their blood sent not only Harrys soul to limbo at this moment, but also Voldemorts. The difference betweent he two of course was that Harry had a complete soul, while Voldemort had a soul that has been practically destroyed by his Horcrux making, thus that nasty childlike form is the most Voldemort can exist as in the afterlife. When Harry returns, we see that Voldemort is also recovering at the same time indicating that his soul portion returned as well.
At first I thought this was the fragment of voldemorts soul existing in Harry as the horcrux, but It really didnt make sense for that piece to still be alive in kings cross when the soul fragments from all the other Horcruxes pretty much were destroyed immediately. Since Harry and Voldemorts lives are tethered to one another however, it makes more sense that this living yet crippled thing is the real voldemorts soul.
The only way Voldemort would have avoided this fate was if he had felt remorse for his deeds and allowed his soul to reform into a whole again. Harry even gives him the opportunity to do this after seeing what was to become of him. Oh well, sucks to be voldemort.
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Post by brethyr on Jul 31, 2007 5:18:47 GMT -4
So here's a topic which someone was going to post (looking at you Bek) ... What exactly was that on the floor with Harry in the ethereal King's Cross? I had no doubts of my initial thought, but someone proposed another idea to me, and JKR throws another wrench in that article which still doesn't make sense. Uh oh, time to make some adjustments, Paco. Feel across his scalp for the counter set screws and open them up. Check to see if anything's been knocked loose. Thanks. You can find the manual hidden inside the chewable vitamins container in his kitchen, if you need it.
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Post by Nethyr on Jul 31, 2007 7:48:22 GMT -4
Yes, it's possible to accidentally double post when I'm doing everything from my phone. Feel free to delete it or just point it out to me instead of commenting.
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Post by brethyr on Jul 31, 2007 8:10:23 GMT -4
Yes, it's possible to accidentally double post when I'm doing everything from my phone. Feel free to delete it or just point it out to me instead of commenting. Now it's speaking. Paco, PLEASE take care of this before anyone figures out the secret.
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Poobar
Attention Whore
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Post by Poobar on Aug 2, 2007 15:02:49 GMT -4
I dont think it was voldemorts actual soul... we have no proof that the horcrux soul fragments were not temporarily in limbo at some point. And it was that piece of soul that connected harry to voldemort... not voldemorts soul in him... and it didnt look like that baby looking thing had the ability to choose to go on or to go back or go anywhere. If it were voldemort's actual soul, there is a chance there would have been a sign that he would be reviving himself soon. Also, I dont think tethered is a good analogy for this... to physical of a word. When harry died, that was the only way of getting rid of the piece of voldemort that was in him. I dont think voldemort would even go to the same "king's cross" as harry would. He would probably have his own. All kinda in harry's mind... Voldemort would seem to have his own dream... although that one might have a bit of harry in it... weird to think about.
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Post by Paco_Guerrera on Aug 2, 2007 15:20:37 GMT -4
I dont think it makes sense for the soul fragments to go to limbo. They are no longer connected to the being of Voldemort. It seems to me that if Kings Cross was limbo, then at least part of the afterlife experience depends on the souls connection to the persons mind, if for no other reason then to form the surroundings for each person uniquely. The soul fragments in the horcruxes had not way to do this. Once their containers were destroyed, they had nowhere to go and nothing to keep them in existance. I believe they are destroyed at the same moment their container is destroyed. I think the only reason the bit of soul left in Voldemort survived the first defeat was because it was still connected to Voldemort himself. Regarding connections, the soul fragment did connect Voldemort to Harry, but this wasnt the only connection by this point in the story. They also shared a blood connection, which Dumbledore explains is the reason harry actually survives the second time. Voldemorts physical body contains Lilys protection and allows harry to survive. I believe the term tether is actually used in the book itself, so Im sorry you dont like it During the time in Kings Cross we know that both Harry and the actual Voldemort are incapacitated. This leads me to suspect that the childlike thing was the actual soul of Voldemort. I dont think the actual soul being there would be a sign of imminent revival or whatever because at this particular time Voldemort is not dead I think he just sort of got taken along on a ride to wherever it was Harry went to thanks to their various connections. He went to Kings Cross simply because thats where Harry went. It was really just a glimpse into Voldemorts future. His lust for power doomed him to a marginal existance in the afterlife. His only chance to avoid this was to try to repair the damage he had done, and Harry even gives him this opportunity, but of course he refuses. I agree that he cant go "on" or anywhere, and this is because he barely has any soul left to go on with. Hes a , and hes gonna pay for it for all eternity. This is my opinion. For me, this explaination is the best one. If you choose to come up with your own ideas or think up a scenario that works better for you then rock on. Its a fun book and was left open to various interpretations. We can each live in harmony believing whatever we each wish to believe
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Poobar
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Post by Poobar on Aug 2, 2007 22:04:53 GMT -4
typing arguements are boring... id much rather talk in person about this book
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Post by Paco_Guerrera on Aug 3, 2007 13:19:16 GMT -4
Fine, 3 o'clock in the parking lot after school. Prepare for fisticuffs.
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Poobar
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Post by Poobar on Aug 3, 2007 14:03:38 GMT -4
Probably going to see the simpsons tonight... We can fisticuff afterwards if you like...
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Post by fullermj on Aug 13, 2007 11:04:17 GMT -4
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Post by Nethyr on Aug 13, 2007 11:12:34 GMT -4
Nice find. I can't say I'm entirely surprised though. Jo's never been shy about making very direct references to some more colorful language. The more we see the movies, the more we forget this from the books. The amaIng intricacies of Cockney slang however, will never cease to amuse me.
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Poobar
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Post by Poobar on Aug 13, 2007 12:23:14 GMT -4
Oh... now it's Jo...
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